This was super great to read! Has been a topic of my church family groups discussions, and your points were the ones I have held. It was really nice to see it all articulated out so beautifully. Lots to learn from the Ninja Warrior record holder!! Haha so cool btw :)
Very simple point : Jesus says “you have heard it say___, but I tell you”, (such as instead of eye for an eye justice, loving enemies), directly contradicting OT law. In orthodox Christology, Jesus as fully God and man, opposing OT laws leaves you with two options: 1) the Bible including the OT law, isn’t perfect/inerrant, since Jesus can and does frequently override it. 2) God can and does change their mind. A thoughtful Christian can hold to either/both of these options; However, one cannot logically deny them both as valid positions in a coherent way. :)
This misunderstands the context of what Jesus was addressing. The Mosaic law being referenced establishes judicial sentencing, much like how modern laws define penalties when guilt is established.
By Jesus’ time, people were applying those principles to personal vendettas trading hate for hate. Jesus was correcting a heart issue, not a courtroom one.
That said, we can recognize areas where Old Testament regulations are fulfilled and therefore no longer binding in the same way. This isn’t God changing His mind, but God unfolding His plan through Christ.
It’s similar to how I wouldn’t let my daughter drive before she had her license. I didn’t change my mind about driving. My plan always included her growing into new responsibilities once certain conditions were met.
Thanks for the comment. It is pretty well said, but I think is fundamentally an evasion of the issue. The truth is that Jesus opposed certain OT laws in and of themselves (and also gave “new” commandments). For example He commanded his followers to love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us, even when OT law permitted or prescribed “eye for an eye” type of justice. If just pulling from OT laws, one could institute retributive justice based on these passages, but only in direct contradiction of Jesus’ teachings though (and, sadly, many do). Your point seems to be Jesus just opposed misuse of the laws and not the laws themselves, but this is not true and for example doesn’t do justice to the story of the woman caught in adultery. So faithful Christians may adopt the view that the Bible is not inerrant but rather reveals the Word of God (Christ), Karl Barth’s view. And Christians may view the future as being open, as in open or relational theologians like Boyd or Thomas J Oord. Saying any of these are not genuine Christians because they don’t agree with your views, simply wont work.
First, I never said those who disagree with me are not genuine Christians. Please don’t attribute arguments to me that I did not make.
Second, you are conflating civil regulation with moral behavior. Those are not the same category, and treating them as such leads to confusion.
Third, progressive revelation is not God changing His mind. In Matthew 19:8, Jesus explicitly says Moses permitted divorce because of hard hearts, not because it reflected God’s ideal. And 1 Timothy 1:9 makes clear that the law is given for the unrighteous.
So when Jesus raises the standard in the New Covenant, He is not changing His mind. He is clarifying and fulfilling what was already true from the beginning.
Your example of the woman caught in adultery in John 8 actually proves the point. The Pharisees were not pursuing justice. They were trying to trap Jesus. They ignored the requirements of the law and weaponized it for a personal agenda.
Jesus does not overturn the law there. He exposes their hypocrisy and addresses the heart issue behind their misuse of it.
God’s standard did not change. Their application of it was corrupt.
Apologies if you felt I misrepresented you. This was based in you referring to process theology as a "dangerous belief"... which wouldn't seem like a big leap from there to question the legitimacy of someone's Christianity.
Growing up evangelical, I learned there is basically "one" correct view of things (of course, we were the ones who had it)— Catholics, Mormons, feminists, etc certainly didn’t have it. I no longer find this a plausible approach to questions of faith, as it it precludes dialogue, diversity of thought, humility, and growing or changing in one's understanding. My faith life is much richer now, and full of love, joy, and peace, since having left that way behind.
Back to the original point, overall I confess I don't find your approach to the ways Jesus interacted with the Hebrew laws and the Pharisees particularly convincing. This article does a better job (than me) of explaining why:
John Cothern brings a rare combination of technical precision, real‑world experience, and decades of disciplined study to his work on biblical prophecy.
He is a United States Air Force Radar Repairman (30351) trained in Identification‑Friend‑or‑Foe (IFF) systems, precision radar landing systems, and the computer architectures that support them — fields where accuracy is non‑negotiable and lives depend on the details. He trained with the base judo team, Just for fun.
John is also a licensed Emergency Medical Technician (UCLA), a licensed insurance agent (Farmers Group), an advanced open‑water scuba diver, a skydiver, and a lifelong motorcycle enthusiast. His background reflects a life spent in high‑pressure environments requiring calm judgment, technical mastery, and disciplined thinking.
Professionally, John has worked across multiple industries. He is a master goldsmith, former CEO of U.S. Casting Jewelry Manufacturing, and spent eight years with Zale’s as a custom jewelry repairman and manufacturer. He also holds degrees in construction management, giving him a strong foundation in engineering, systems, and project leadership.
John grew up in Oregon, where he learned hunting, fishing, trapping, taxidermy, and photography — developing his own film and prints in the darkroom. These early experiences shaped his eye for detail and his respect for craftsmanship.
For many years, John has served as a Bible teacher, focusing on clarity, accessibility, and non‑confrontational, evidence‑based study. His mission is simple:
To help ordinary people understand biblical prophecy without fear, confusion, or speculation.
Today, he dedicates his time to creating a freely accessible, global archive of prophecy studies hosted on Microsoft servers, ensuring anyone, anywhere, can learn at their own pace.
Understand most links will work but this is 10 years worth of work and sometimes things just happen but the answers are interlinked so you’ll probably find another link somewhere else when I built another table
This was super great to read! Has been a topic of my church family groups discussions, and your points were the ones I have held. It was really nice to see it all articulated out so beautifully. Lots to learn from the Ninja Warrior record holder!! Haha so cool btw :)
Thanks Joseph :)
It seems like this topic has been making its rounds of late. Glad to see you guys taking about it in your church family groups!
This is good Justine. The Jonah exposition is incredible.
Apologist and American Ninja warrior record holder??? That's awesome
Thanks! Unfortunately, there is little practical application for my record.
That analogy was probably the first time I was able to use it for something useful 😂😂😂.
Very simple point : Jesus says “you have heard it say___, but I tell you”, (such as instead of eye for an eye justice, loving enemies), directly contradicting OT law. In orthodox Christology, Jesus as fully God and man, opposing OT laws leaves you with two options: 1) the Bible including the OT law, isn’t perfect/inerrant, since Jesus can and does frequently override it. 2) God can and does change their mind. A thoughtful Christian can hold to either/both of these options; However, one cannot logically deny them both as valid positions in a coherent way. :)
This misunderstands the context of what Jesus was addressing. The Mosaic law being referenced establishes judicial sentencing, much like how modern laws define penalties when guilt is established.
By Jesus’ time, people were applying those principles to personal vendettas trading hate for hate. Jesus was correcting a heart issue, not a courtroom one.
That said, we can recognize areas where Old Testament regulations are fulfilled and therefore no longer binding in the same way. This isn’t God changing His mind, but God unfolding His plan through Christ.
It’s similar to how I wouldn’t let my daughter drive before she had her license. I didn’t change my mind about driving. My plan always included her growing into new responsibilities once certain conditions were met.
Thanks for the comment. It is pretty well said, but I think is fundamentally an evasion of the issue. The truth is that Jesus opposed certain OT laws in and of themselves (and also gave “new” commandments). For example He commanded his followers to love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us, even when OT law permitted or prescribed “eye for an eye” type of justice. If just pulling from OT laws, one could institute retributive justice based on these passages, but only in direct contradiction of Jesus’ teachings though (and, sadly, many do). Your point seems to be Jesus just opposed misuse of the laws and not the laws themselves, but this is not true and for example doesn’t do justice to the story of the woman caught in adultery. So faithful Christians may adopt the view that the Bible is not inerrant but rather reveals the Word of God (Christ), Karl Barth’s view. And Christians may view the future as being open, as in open or relational theologians like Boyd or Thomas J Oord. Saying any of these are not genuine Christians because they don’t agree with your views, simply wont work.
Thank you for your response.
First, I never said those who disagree with me are not genuine Christians. Please don’t attribute arguments to me that I did not make.
Second, you are conflating civil regulation with moral behavior. Those are not the same category, and treating them as such leads to confusion.
Third, progressive revelation is not God changing His mind. In Matthew 19:8, Jesus explicitly says Moses permitted divorce because of hard hearts, not because it reflected God’s ideal. And 1 Timothy 1:9 makes clear that the law is given for the unrighteous.
So when Jesus raises the standard in the New Covenant, He is not changing His mind. He is clarifying and fulfilling what was already true from the beginning.
Your example of the woman caught in adultery in John 8 actually proves the point. The Pharisees were not pursuing justice. They were trying to trap Jesus. They ignored the requirements of the law and weaponized it for a personal agenda.
Jesus does not overturn the law there. He exposes their hypocrisy and addresses the heart issue behind their misuse of it.
God’s standard did not change. Their application of it was corrupt.
Apologies if you felt I misrepresented you. This was based in you referring to process theology as a "dangerous belief"... which wouldn't seem like a big leap from there to question the legitimacy of someone's Christianity.
Growing up evangelical, I learned there is basically "one" correct view of things (of course, we were the ones who had it)— Catholics, Mormons, feminists, etc certainly didn’t have it. I no longer find this a plausible approach to questions of faith, as it it precludes dialogue, diversity of thought, humility, and growing or changing in one's understanding. My faith life is much richer now, and full of love, joy, and peace, since having left that way behind.
Back to the original point, overall I confess I don't find your approach to the ways Jesus interacted with the Hebrew laws and the Pharisees particularly convincing. This article does a better job (than me) of explaining why:
https://reknew.org/2017/01/jesus-refuted-old-testament-laws/
Appreciate the convo, and take care.
About the Author
https://x.com/jcothern123
All of the articles are on My Personal X acct. – at the above link – they can be scrolled vertically to see pictures by last to 1st.
The link below is to an a to z list of subjects and websites
https://1drv.ms/w/c/18cefdb2e9b77738/IQBjHcg7JeiLSoQG_e1f1dZiAb5Cunx-BNAGA5ORCE1Mmgk?e=Ery182
John Cothern brings a rare combination of technical precision, real‑world experience, and decades of disciplined study to his work on biblical prophecy.
He is a United States Air Force Radar Repairman (30351) trained in Identification‑Friend‑or‑Foe (IFF) systems, precision radar landing systems, and the computer architectures that support them — fields where accuracy is non‑negotiable and lives depend on the details. He trained with the base judo team, Just for fun.
John is also a licensed Emergency Medical Technician (UCLA), a licensed insurance agent (Farmers Group), an advanced open‑water scuba diver, a skydiver, and a lifelong motorcycle enthusiast. His background reflects a life spent in high‑pressure environments requiring calm judgment, technical mastery, and disciplined thinking.
Professionally, John has worked across multiple industries. He is a master goldsmith, former CEO of U.S. Casting Jewelry Manufacturing, and spent eight years with Zale’s as a custom jewelry repairman and manufacturer. He also holds degrees in construction management, giving him a strong foundation in engineering, systems, and project leadership.
John grew up in Oregon, where he learned hunting, fishing, trapping, taxidermy, and photography — developing his own film and prints in the darkroom. These early experiences shaped his eye for detail and his respect for craftsmanship.
For many years, John has served as a Bible teacher, focusing on clarity, accessibility, and non‑confrontational, evidence‑based study. His mission is simple:
To help ordinary people understand biblical prophecy without fear, confusion, or speculation.
Today, he dedicates his time to creating a freely accessible, global archive of prophecy studies hosted on Microsoft servers, ensuring anyone, anywhere, can learn at their own pace.
Understand most links will work but this is 10 years worth of work and sometimes things just happen but the answers are interlinked so you’ll probably find another link somewhere else when I built another table
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